Let's start off by saying this...there are a lot of health myths floating around on the internet and a lot of contradicting studies even, and oftentimes because the "science" isn't really science. It's simply a viral meme that isn't rooted in fact or it could be bought and paid for "science" by special interest groups who stand to make a lot of money off of promoting certain beliefs about different things. Vitamins are no different.
Many people think they HAVE to take Vitamin K with Vitamin D because of this very thing: too much #HealthNutMythology on the internet and other places. But here's the thing...Vitamin K deficiency is very rare in adults because many of the foods we eat contain adequate amounts of K1, and the body actually makes K2 on its own. Also, the body is very good at recycling its existing supply of Vitamin K. Now, there are certain conditions and some drugs that can interfere with Vitamin K absorption and creation, making it possible to become deficient, but Vitamin K deficiency is much more common in infants, and the condition with infants is called VKDB (for Vitamin K deficiency bleeding).
So...with that being said, let's look at a longer list of reasons (in greater detail) as to why you shouldn't take Vitamin K with Vitamin D, and this is precisely why +SYRONA doesn't put Vitamin K in its flagship product, ELIXIR.
When you read about the use of K with D, there are a lot of reasons that sound compelling as to why they should be together in a supplement, but what you won't usually hear about is the fact that the combination of K and D can actually INCREASE the risk of kidney stones (within just a few years even!) and may contribute to coronary artery calcifications, which is actually the OPPOSITE of what you usually hear about combining the two. Now, why this fact isn't talked about much at all is curious, but the reasons these two nutrients together can actually CAUSE coronary artery calcification, instead of preventing it, is that these two (K & D) together, add more calcium to your blood, and that’s not something you want!
We are not saying that +SYRONA is "Anti-Vitamin K." In fact, Vitamin K can be a very powerful weapon against things like prostate cancer (in particular). But it’s not necessary to put Vitamin K into Vitamin D formulas, and this is a controversial subject. Also, if the goal is prostate cancer prevention or support of the prostate, there are many other things that can be taken that are just as (if not more) effective, which will be discussed in another article.
You may not realize this, because many of the manufacturers of the combo Vitamin D3 with K2, do not typically mention this fact, but D3/K2 combos aren’t tested on regular people. The tests have been done on a specific group of women: The clinical trials on the combo D3/K2 supplements have been conducted on post-menopausal, who were not supported on anticoagulants, who may or may not have eaten their K through their diet. The trials supporting the D3/K2 supplement argument were not on regular pre-menopausal women, or men for that matter. These were post-menopausal women who needed a little added calcium for a short period of time, so K was useful for those specific women, at that very specific time in their lives.
There isn’t a single study to determine what is right for everyone. But current evidence suggests that post-menopausal women might benefit from both nutrients and this will be elaborated on later. The trouble is that K isn’t testable, so how do you know you need it? How do you know when to stop it? When you pass a kidney stone? So we (at +SYRONA) recommend just the D (which is what she said, and why we don't put K in our ELIXIR formula), unless you are known to be deficient in K.
Vitamin K is actually easy to get without supplementation...another reason we don't put it in our formulas. For example, Vitamin K is found in a lot of different vegetables and fruits. And when we say “Vitamin K,” we really mean K1 and K2. Many people don’t realize that K refers to a group of nutrients, primarily K1 and K2, and there are some differences between K1 and K2.
"Vitamin K" actually refers to several fat-soluble nutrients. So it's similar to saying “Vitamin E” which refers to a group of tocopherols and tocotrienols, not just one thing. Anyway, Vitamin K1 comes from plants and leafy greens whereas Vitamin K2 comes from eggs and animal-sources. With Vitamin K, about 80% - 90% is consumed and derived from vegetables/leafy greens meaning it is K1 and not K2. It’s very easy to get if you eat pretty much any vegetable!
Vitamin K2 is produced by your own microflora, as in your ‘gut probiotics’ although not much is known about the absorption of vitamin K, or its transport out of the gut (and into the blood stream). And since the +SYRONA ELIXIR and (especially) PANACEA products actually help with that, we have yet another reason to not put K in our supplements.
We do know that natural K1 and K2 are readily available from your diet if you eat cheese, pork, chicken, eggs, egg yolk and fermented foods especially natto (which provides over 800 mcg vitamin K2 per serving). The point here is that you can eat it very easily, PLUS your body actually makes it and recycles it. Read that last sentence again.
As for blood clotting, both K1 and K2 interfere with anticoagulant drugs. The difference is that the effect of K1 is relatively short, maybe a few hours, where as when you consume K2 rich foods (meats, cheese, eggs) the blood clotting can last for days and days! By that token, if a person is on anticoagulants, then experts would say to avoid Vitamin K rich foods but they don’t say that the K2 runs more interference than K1. Everyone seems to be concerned about leafy greens, but the more insidious and long-acting of the two vitamin Ks would be the Vitamin K2 rich foods because they would interact with the medication, negating the action for days, as opposed to hours with K1 rich foods.
As stated at the outset, manufacturers of supplements like Vitamin D oftentimes include vitamin K in the formula, thereby providing both of these nutrients at the same time to an individual. Again, there is a tiny subset of people that might benefit from this, but not the masses of people that take it. It may actually not be ideal for all of you who do take the combo. In fact, it may be harmful!
We'll tell you why right now...
1. Vitamin K is beyond easy to get in your diet!
Essentially you can eat a lot of different foods and get more than an ample amount of K in your diet. And you certainly don't need it in nano-form, which is what +SYRONA specializes in and is known for. A quick and simple internet search will show you a list of foods that offer K for your diet, but, just as an example, you will find a rich source Vitamin K in liver, broccoli, cabbage, brussels sprouts, greens, endive, spinach, kale, lettuce, mustard greens, parsley, bananas, snap peas, edamame, Swiss chard, turnip greens, watercress, and for that matter, any other green leafy vegetable! So why do you need a supplement of this, that has potential to cause problems when you can simply eat a vegetable? And you should be eating them anyway!
And for those of you who are still screaming that you NEED extra Vitamin K to help your body properly allocate calcium in the body when taking extra Vitamin D...well, when you lay out in the sun you get Vitamin D. Quite a bit actually. In fact, just a half hour in the sun can yield up to 20,000 IU of Vitamin D. 30 minutes! Oh my goodness! Somebody hurry up and mow through a huge salad to get all the Vitamin K to balance out and properly process the 20,000 IU of Vitamin D before we all have a heart attack in the sun from our 30 minute sun bath!
Bottom line: you don't need K with your D supplement...especially since it can actually cause more harm than good in most cases.
2. Your own body makes the K it needs.
Remember that you also manufacture K2 in your gut, using your own stash of intestinal microflora. There is some more detailed information about K in the database from the National Institute for Health. To read more about the basics of Vitamin K, CLICK HERE.
So, why would you feel like it’s a good move to take supplemental K when your body makes its own, its in rich supply in our foods, and it can interact with so many things in a negative way if you get too much? Just one example...there are many interactions and many drugs that interfere with the effects of Vitamin K, including antacids, blood thinners, drugs for cancer, seizures, cholesterol and even aspirin! You can’t just take a vitamin like K because someone tells you it’s ideal. You really should make an informed choice to see if you need it, and again, there are no lab tests for K. And again, your body naturally makes it, so +SYRONA recommends that you rely on your own body and your own system to make what it needs. The body is intelligent, it knows what to do.
And the reason we add D to our ELIXIR product is because we have nano-sized it, so the bioavailability is second to none, and there are may people with D deficiencies out there...it's more common than you'd think. And also, there is a lot of research suggesting that supplementing high quality D (especially in the Winter months) will help to supercharge your immune system and help with so many other things in the body. It's certainly better to have more than you need than not enough (unless you're taking absurd amounts of it, like millions of IUs each month). Also, +SYRONA has found compelling evidence in our own labs and research that our specific combination of nano-sized GSH (glutathione), B12, and D3 has an unusually high impact, working synergistically together in our proprietary formula. And we'd tell you what that is and how we do it, but then we'd have to kill you. 💀😂
3. It can cause excessive calcium (hypercalcemia)
Vitamin D and K both work together to raise calcium levels in the body, which may or may not be good for all of you. The trouble with too much calcium is it sneaks up on you and has been linked to atherosclerosis. Calcium, in excess, can contribute to heart arrhythmias, muscle pain or cramps, insomnia as well as agitation. It is what binds with oxalates to form kidney stones. Ever have one of those, or know someone? They say the pain of that is worse than childbirth! So, again, +SYRONA hit the pass button on K from the very beginning of our formula experimentation in the lab when developing everything.
And here's something that most supplement manufacturers (who combine D & K) won't tell you: Taking combinations of D with K will cause more calcium to be retained in your body and again, this might not be right for you. So this is another reason we do not add it to our formulas. It isn’t safe for all of you, and we are serving millions of people worldwide and there's obviously no way of knowing how many of you have a history of heart disease, kidney stones, muscle pain, or sleeping problems. So, we feel that it makes much more sense to leave the K out of our formulas.
4. Vitamin K supplements cause the blood to thicken.
This is the opposite of a blood thinner. Who wants super viscous blood? Especially with all the clotting going on out there now and who knows who's shedding and spreading God knows what around from toxic everything! Most people are now trying to thin their blood a bit. So, again...pass.
And that's not all...if you are on blood thinners or taking things to thin your blood intentionally, the addition of K with D3 supplements could be working against that...especially for those on prescription blood thinners (because it negates the action). Vitamin K is never recommended if you take anticoagulants. Millions of people take blood thinners today. Millions upon millions.
Remember, K is found in vegetables and eggs. You’re eating it on a daily basis (or you should be anyway). But it’s not having an adverse effect if you eat it. The dose is natural as you might guess if you get your nutrients from your food. It’s not a large dose like you could get in a supplement. Imagine unknowingly getting too much K in your vitamin D supplement – a supplement you bought for say, cold and flu immunity – only to end up with kidney stones or hardened arteries! Yikes! Vitamin D on the other hand, is basic, and it's used by millions of people for blood sugar management too. No one taking D for these purposes expects to have K raised, nor would they want it.
Imagine taking that D + K combo pill (and not realizing the harm that the added K was interacting with one of your medications). You might have just bought yourself a trip to the ER. +SYRONA wants no part of that karma! Plus, we're trying to help you, not hurt you. We'll leave the "inadvertant" disease causing and deaths to #BigPharma and the AMA. We're not a death cult!
5. Our ELIXIR isn’t a bone formula.
Many of you are taking D for your bones, and the K helps transport the calcium into your bones. And that’s all fine and good, but MOST people do not take D for bone-building effects. Most people take it for immunity, blood glucose, mood support for melancholy or Seasonal Affective Disorder.
Some people need additional D if they take a statin cholesterol drug because those medications (i.e. Mevacor, Lipitor) can reduce D levels making supplementation critical. FYI, this category of drugs can make you very tired, and feel weak due to their depletion of an ‘energy’ hormone. So, if you’re taking D for any reason other than bone mineral density loss, you don’t really want to jack up your K levels. The worst part is, you can’t measure your K levels so you really don’t know until the kidney stones starts firing up or the hypercalcemia sneaks up on your muscles, heart, mood or arteries.
And you don’t need the additional calcium either. It would have been pretty simple for us to put K into our formulas that contain Vitamin D, and the ingredients are cheap (although it would raise the manufacturing cost and it would take away from the other critical ingredients, to make room in the bottle), but we left this out on purpose because we made our formulas for everyone, and they're not necessarily for bone support...but they can be. You can always add a stand-alone supplement of K if you feel strongly that you need it.
6. You Only Need D to Raise Blood Levels of D
Having added K1 or K2 doesn’t raise levels of D any faster. Some of you have taken a blood test for Vitamin D and found out you’re deficient in it. So then you have to take high doses of D for months to build up your levels to physiological “normal” status. So, when you take high doses of D like this, you should NOT be taking high doses of K.
It should be noted also that before humans started spending so much time indoors and around so many EMFs, the human body was naturally making its own Vitamin D in the tens upon tens of thousands of IUs daily! Again, just 30 minutes in the sun can yield up to 20,000 IU of D. This is why we settled on the amount of D that we did in our ELIXIR formula (5,000 IU) for one dose. It's nowhere near the amount that your body makes when you're in the sun regularly, but it is enough that it is on the high side of beneficial...especially if you're high dosing the ELIXIR for the extra GSH (glutathione) and Vitamin B12, which can be especially effective at dealing with skin issues, or bolstering your energy levels and the immune system to super human levels, as well as detoxing from really nasty stuff like "forever chemicals" or heavy metals. So, unless you're chugging bottles of ELIXIR every day for months on end, you shouldn't run into any Vitamin D toxicity issues, but there's plenty in there to get you to the often desired high dosing range, and also to allow for higher dosing of the GSH (glutathione) and B12, without concerns of over dosing on the D (which in NOT what she said).
7. Vitamin K is so easy to get!
We’ve kind of covered this but K is SUPER easy to get! So why would we want to make a lab-created form of it (which is what would have to be done) and have you take that when you can put lettuce on your burger, or have a salad? Or eat some veggies or eggs? We believe in getting natural forms of nutrients and vitamins when it's possible. But in the case of GSH (glutathione), which is the master antioxidant of the body, you make less and less of it as you age, so supplementing it is CRITICAL, and you can't just swallow it or it will be destroyed in the stomach acids. You have to either receive an IV infusion, which is expensive and time consuming, or you can absorb the GSH directly into your bloodstream with our ELIXIR because we've nano-sized it and it absorbs immediately, sublingually (in the mouth), bypassing the hostile digestive tract...all for just a couple bucks a dose, as opposed to hundreds of dollars for just one IV infusion at a clinic.
Now, what about Vitamin D? It's is supposedly easy to get because we can just go stand in the sun, right? Well, it is a bit more complex than that. One reason (among many) is because not all of us are sun-worshippers, and some people have liver/kidney compromise, so even the sunshine-derived forms of D don’t convert to the metabolically active hormonal form. The point is that supplementing with D makes total sense for most people. But supplementing with D plus K doesn’t. Maybe if you have osteoporosis or osteopenia, then we can see that working out well, but for the majority of people, it is not necessary, and may produce adverse interactions and consequences due to the higher calcium levels precipitating out as stones.
8. K deficiencies are extremely rare.
When a doctor measures your blood test, they only evaluate your Vitamin D status, not K status. And with nutrients, balance is everything. There’s actually a risk to taking supplemental Vitamin K when you haven’t been evaluated for that and found to be deficient (which, again, you can't do with just a simple blood test). And again, most people do not need to supplement with K because it’s in practically every popular food people eat, such as eggs, chicken, salads, vegetables, kale, cheese, popular fermented foods, and more. True deficiencies of K1 or K2 are extraordinarily, super, enormously, fantastically, ginormously rare!
The recommendations are as follows: Women above 19 years old should consume 90 micrograms (mcg) each day, and men should have 120 mcg. To put this in perspective, one cup of broccoli gives you 220 mcg, one cup of coleslaw provides 160 mcg, kiwifruit provides 63 mcg and sautéed spinach gives you 889 mcg! There are hundreds of foods that offer a substantial amount of vitamin K, so putting it in a supplement doesn’t make sense at all, unless a company wants to market their “Vitamin D plus K” as a “superior” form...and that's mostly what they do and why they do it...or if they are targeting bone health and assuming that you don’t take an anti-coagulant, and you don’t eat any fruits or vegetables either.
I can't overstate how much we're being ridiculously totally transparent with you and telling you it would have been super easy for us to add some K to our formulas because of how cheap K is. So, don't let anyone fool you...it's not a cost-cutting issue at all as far as raw ingredients go (although it would take an extra step in manufacturing, which would slightly raise the cost, but it's very miniscule). And as a matter of fact, we actually have been producing some D with K in our pharmaceutical grade isolate formulas that are offered to private medical practices and pharmacies for prescription purposes. But we chose not to put it in our other formulas because it’s unnecessary and potentially harmful to people if they take certain medications or if they're taking supplements without the direct supervision and advise of a health professional. Plus we would have to reduce the amount of MCT, GSH, B12, or D3 in the bottle as well, and no one wants that kind of negativity!
In short, good viral marketing by many manufacturers have caused some people to feel like they need K, and that the D all by itself is completely useless, or that its even harmful with out the magic Vitamin K. 🙄
So, if you are in this category, I’d make sure you're absolutely really sure, because you can’t test your levels of K, only D. So, ask a qualified holistic practitioner if it’s right for your situation, and how you can tell if you’re pulling only one side of the spider web. We would recommend that you get a serum calcium level to check for hypercalcemia before taking products with added K, and also monitoring calcium levels every six months or sooner if you develop cardiac or muscle symptoms. Just our "two cents" from working in medical facilities and labs for many years. Also, the parathyroid (PTH) hormone needs to be measured too. These things do have to be monitored. You can’t just pop a pill every day and not think about these, or adverse effects can occur in the future, and you’d never know it.
So, how is the D measured and how is K measured? Just FYI, Vitamin K2 administration in an animal model stimulated intestinal calcium absorption by increasing serum 1,25 (OH) 2D level. That’s the active form of vitamin D, not the storage form which is 25 D. Many doctors are still ordering the wrong type of D test. It should be 25-hydroxyvitamin D.
The higher the 1,25 D level, the lower the 25 D levels might be. You simply don’t know unless you measure both in the same blood draw. You could have both levels measured and see both levels simulatenously. Both markers of D have to be measured in my professional opinion. There is an important distinction between the 1,25 D levels that are controlled by your PTH, and 25 D levels which could be more indicative of a deficiency. Let's quote directly from aafp.org:
"Many practitioners become confused when ordering a vitamin D test. Because 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D is the active form of vitamin D, many practitioners think that measuring 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D is an accurate means to estimate vitamin D stores and test for vitamin D deficiency, which is incorrect.
"Current Endocrine Society guidelines recommend screening for vitamin D deficiency in individuals at risk for deficiency. Serum levels of 1,25-dihyroxyvitamin D have little or no relationship to vitamin D stores but rather are regulated primarily by parathyroid hormone levels, which in turn are regulated by calcium and/or vitamin D. In vitamin D deficiency, 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D levels go up, not down.
"Unregulated production of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D (i.e., sarcoidosis, granulomatous diseases) is an uncommon cause of hypercalcemia; this should be suspected if blood calcium levels are high and parathyroid hormone levels are low and confirmed by measurement of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D. The enzyme that activates vitamin D is produced in the kidney, so blood levels of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D are sometimes of interest in patients on dialysis or with end-stage kidney disease. There are few other circumstances, if any, where 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D testing would be helpful. Serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels may be overused, but when trying to assess vitamin D stores or diagnose vitamin D deficiency (or toxicity), 25-hydroxyvitamin D is the correct test."
As for testing your levels of vitamin K, again, this isn’t easily done. When people experience excessive bleeding or experience easy bruising, the doctor orders a PT test (prothrombin). At that time they may be given a vitamin K shot which causes the blood to thicken (clot) which helps stop the easy bruising/bleeding. You can see that we’re dealing with serious stuff here, right? Bleeding internally and bruising and everything related to that impacts blood flow to your brain, heart, and vital organs. So, you don’t want to take K in your supplements unless you need it. It’s not one of those vitamins to pop indiscriminately and see what happens! This could be a classic case of...how do the kids these days say it...f#@k around and find out? Pretty sure that's it.
Either way, the bigger question for most people is whether or not your dietary supplement should contain the two nutrients in one dose. For example, should you be supplementing with Vitamin D all by itself, or K all by itself…or both together. The brands that are available today vary...some have K1, some have K2, and some have both K1 and K2.
As mentioned previously, the addition of K to a D formula doesn’t cost very much more (in terms of actual ingredients), but it can certainly increase the manufacturing cost itself as it is another ingredient and another step. So, yeah, we looked into it of course, but again, because of all the reasons previously mentioned, we won't add it. You can find K on its own, if you need it, and it's cheap. Or just eat an egg or a sammich.
The marketing is actually what is expensive because the ads and promotional material have to now convince you (well, not YOU specifically but people...and it has, apparently) that K is necessary to integrate the D into your bones, or into your heart, and brain...and they have to convince you that if you don’t get this NEW special combo supplement...that now contains K2 along with D...then you’re somehow going to suffer! It can be convincing, and quite scary. And it can become very passionately charged too, as people have very strong opinions about what’s right for them.
But what is right for one, isn’t right for all. There is a place for it, for a small group of people.
There is a subset of post-menopausal women who have bone loss in their scans, who may benefit from the combination of D3/K2 for short-term (a few months), provided they do NOT have a history of stones, or arrhythmias or heart disease...and also provided they’re not taking calcium supplements too (because it could cause hypercalcemia which leads to hardening of the arteries, atherosclerosis), and ALSO provided they’re not on anticoagulant thereapy (because it will interact) and ALSO they are not getting it from their diet because they’re not eating eggs, chicken, kiwi, salads, broccoli, spinach or any other vegetable or leafy green, or anything else with K in it! And if this is you...if you're in that micro group...then a combo of D3/K2 could be safe and advised for you. But if not...don't get mad at us because we did tell you so! Either way, do you see how ridiculous the K + D argument is?! We’re talking about less than 0.01% of the population who needs additional K with a D supplement.
Also, a real quick note about Vitamin D3 Sulfate (because we know that some of you are asking right about now): Vitamin D3 and Vitamin D3 Sulfate are each beneficial in their own way. For example, regular D3 is fabulous at transporting calcium throughout your body, whereas the sulfated form of D doesn’t work for calcium transport. That said, it’s the sulfated form that offers protection to DNA and against cancer. It provides immune support and helps with heart health. It also supports mood, making it the form that is best for depression. And no need to worry...your body knows how to convert the D vitamins that you're getting, into the sulfated form when it's needed.
And so there you have it. Another myth busted and another article completed!
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Editor: Ethan Lucas
Authors: Ethan Lucas, Brett Smiley, and Suzy Cohen